Ambitious battery mod in need of a battery helpdesk

Bvzijverden
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 9:39 am

Ambitious battery mod in need of a battery helpdesk

Postby Bvzijverden Mon May 27, 2019 10:36 am

Before blatantly asking for advice on a forum that I have never posted before nor have given out any advice, I'd like to say that the people over at the discord part have already been of massive help on all sorts of matters and it's truly remarkable how much knowledge there is on there.

Also I would like to point out that it seems to be one of the few places on the internet that is still has rather positive vibes to it. Users make jokes and exchange ideas and more importantly you're not shot down immediately for having an opinion on a subject.
It's a great way to have a chat for quick questions like flashing etc without the need of opening a thread on the forum. However for some cases a permanent thread is required for more serious question, like the one I have for you today.

Let's get to the point
I got a pretty sweet deal on an ES1 last November but I soon realised that with my 7'0, 270 pound frame it needed a little extra juice, so I went ahead and installed an external battery, one of those official ones from Segway (not a DIY pack like some do with the 365's)

All was good until my girlfriend complained about the ext battery getting lose halfway through the ride, sometimes giving error 42 etc etc and she also asked if I could put lights underneath it like on the ES2. Now you guys need to know that I'm a vivid DIY'er with good knowledge of EV's (I did make my own e-bike after all).
First I thought about just putting 3x 18650 cells in the decking that would power 2 LED strips at the bottom. This would mean next to no risk of messing anything up with the internals). Then it occurred to me that since the connection between ext battery and scooter was failing anyway, I might as well open it up and have a look at that connector and test for continuity. After some struggling I got her apart and couldn't see anything suspicious so I continued working with the lights.

As I continued to disassemble the scooter I noticed this huge space in the bottom board underneath where your feet would be. The cavity measures 170mm across, 30mm tall and ± 4200mm in length so that would be perfect for for putting 20x 18650 cells + BMS!!
So one evening and a couple of beers later I got the ext battery cracked open and decided to switch it off before attempting to cut loose the individual cells and short something out. THIS was probably the mistake I made: I held down the button on the ext batt board to switch it off).
Skip forward a day and I got all the cells lined up in a row of 20, BMS connected on top of the cells and with 37.2v to the leads. Perfect right? Well upon hooking the ext battery up, bam, error 42 😥

First I thought I messed up the polarity of the C-, C+, RX and TX pins (you know how the ext batt connects with 2 big power pins and 4 smaller ones, well the smaller ones are labelled C-, C+, RX and TX. (Charging and I suppose data transfer between control board and batt through RX and TX).
In the end the polarity was good, I made the wires shorter in case the RX and TX signals weren't strong enough to cover 2 feet of wire ( :?: ). I even hooked up that little circuit board of the ext batt that lights up 4 LED's according to the SOC.

Well nothing seems to do the trick on the hardware end so I suspect something is failing me on the software end. Which is why I'm writing this (arguably too long) post.
I think I accidentally reset the ext batt when I held the button on the BMS down. So now the whole system is freaking out and it can't communicate any longer between the two..
When I first hooked up the ext battery when I got it, the scooter went beeping (can't remember the err code) but an FW update was prompted to the app. After this the two could communicate perfectly.
This didn't happen again not even after flashing older OFW versions onto the controller.

This leaves me with a couple of scenarios, some better than others:
#1: someone on here is my knight in shining armour and know how to flash the ext batt BMS (0.5% this will happen).
#2: buy a 10s BMS of the internet and hook that up to the controller. Two options to do that:
----hook it up in parallel with the int batt to effectively increase the capacity (of course making sure the voltages are the same to prevent one
charging the next. Problem with this is I'll have 2 charging ports (so you have to remember switching the charger over when one is full. And also
the capacity might not be the same of the int batt and the ext batt which will be catastrophic when one is already near 30v and the other still
has 36v in it.
----hook it up just like the ext battery is but skip the charging and data connections. This probably wont work as the err 42 still persists if I
connect
the current BMS with just the power leads. The controller probably detects a voltage across something and then proceeds to check it for
communication.
#3 organise the ext batt cells so that they have more or less the same capacity per 2 cells (I got a cell capacity tester here so that is not problem to
do). Then run 10 balancing leads from the internal batt BMS through the tube, through the front suspension and into the deck. Hook those leads
up to their respective pair. This will convert the int battery from a 10s2p pack to a 10s4p pack. At least now I got the range back that I now lack.
Problems: well the obvious, having 10 cables running down the tube and especially through the narrow suspension hole aint going to be easy.

With option 2 and 3 I will still miss the power boost that I desperately need. CFW might have the answer to this by simply adding more top speed and more torque but legitimate sources (one of which are the great guys at Banana Science) have pointed out that they could never reach the power boost provided by an ext batt with simply flashing CFW.

Rad606 on Discord had a good shout: "Someone here mentioned that you could get the power boost that you get from an external battery by connecting the internal battery to both inputs. I have not had it confirmed though."
This could indeed work although as I'm writing this I realise that this will most likely have the same problems as my #2 solution: controller detects a voltage and then tries to communicate which will lead to an err 42.

As you can see I am in quite a predicament here and am stuck in the mud.
What are your guys takes on this matter? What would you do if you were in my situation?


If you made it this far, thank you for taking the time to read half a book.

Bob
xz81
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 8:38 am

Re: Ambitious battery mod in need of a battery helpdesk

Postby xz81 Mon May 27, 2019 12:07 pm

:o
This topic deserves some photos
Bvzijverden
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 9:39 am

Re: Ambitious battery mod in need of a battery helpdesk

Postby Bvzijverden Tue May 28, 2019 10:50 am

:o
This topic deserves some photos
Well I put the scooter back together since my girlfriend uses it to go to work (and since I would still like to eat warm meals for dinner I better not take away her transportation for the sake of DIY :lol: )

I do have a picture of the ext battery in it's current state. Not very glamorous nor glorious but ooh well. https://imgur.com/a/R9qoSWO
The ext batt was surprisingly well made and it was hardd to get the cells out of their plastic casing. I thought about taking pictures there and then but since it involved cutting at 1mm distance with a dremel I was sure someone would just give me sh*t for it..

Ps. I know soldering on cells isn't good for them.. but what you gonna do when you don't have a spotwelder :|

Pps. In the middle of my desperation I made a mistake and friend resistor R41 and R45.. The numbers are not very readable anymore yet I'm yet sure they're 120 ohm and 1k ohm respectively. Can someone confirm this for me please?
Dzidek2005
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 10:10 am

Re: Ambitious battery mod in need of a battery helpdesk

Postby Dzidek2005 Tue May 28, 2019 5:22 pm

Hello my friend wants to increase the power or vmax scooter I also discovered this place for additional batteries I have now connected an additional 4s4p package thanks to my scooter reaches a speed of 55 km / h, the range has also increased a lot because each link has 3200 capacity gives me an additional 12,800 capacity and increases a voltage of 16.8 V can theoretically be done and 60 km / h but then it tugs. In this way I have achieved more power, the wheel slips at the start and vmax above 50km / h I think that further blocking speed is through the software because the traction is slowing down and accelerating. What is the firmware version for internal and external batteries
Bvzijverden
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 9:39 am

Re: Ambitious battery mod in need of a battery helpdesk

Postby Bvzijverden Wed May 29, 2019 8:40 pm

Hello my friend wants to increase the power or vmax scooter I also discovered this place for additional batteries I have now connected an additional 4s4p package thanks to my scooter reaches a speed of 55 km / h, the range has also increased a lot because each link has 3200 capacity gives me an additional 12,800 capacity and increases a voltage of 16.8 V can theoretically be done and 60 km / h but then it tugs. In this way I have achieved more power, the wheel slips at the start and vmax above 50km / h I think that further blocking speed is through the software because the traction is slowing down and accelerating. What is the firmware version for internal and external batteries
Wow 55 km/h.... that is no joke man! Well done!
I don't understand it properly though: you increased the voltage on the controller by 16.8v? Either way, it sounds like you do a lot of serious modding and you might be able to help me.
Also, where did you hook up up that 4s4p pack? In parallel with the ext batt?

The version of the int batt is 0.1.4.1
The version of the ext batt is the same I THINK, but I can't be sure because it can't communicate anymore with the controller so I can't check :cry:

Bob
Dzidek2005
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 10:10 am

Re: Ambitious battery mod in need of a battery helpdesk

Postby Dzidek2005 Fri May 31, 2019 2:15 am

Yes I agree 55 km / h I think that would give even more but esmax free software limits more than 55 Ikm I think that you can have other versions of the software on the external and internal battery and do not communicate with the controller eat the software esrolback tool to bms 1.22 firmware too to 1.22 then doing updates updraguje you external batteries do it only when soft is also lower in the external battery on the bank is old bms eg 1.3.6 or 1.22 is written by Google translator so not everything can be a super legible esrolback application check all modloly scooters and software version and other useful things you can find at https://mimod.ru/en_US/

Everything zelezy since mosfet what you have are on 64 85 I 100 v theoretically having the last you can give on the engine and 90 v conference needs someone who will tell me how to remove the speed limits from the software are discounted, but they are actually set at 45km / h above 50 km
https://imageshack.com/i/poUg45Ujj
https://imageshack.com/i/poqfxUdaj
https://imageshack.com/i/plcNPIw0j

I gave, of course, bigger capacitors 1000 nf 63v can be without them but thanks to the capacitors we have a voltage supply. Larger voltage gives a smaller A on the connectors from what I calculated instead of 25 A as in the original we have at power 1000W only 16A on the cables if you want to give more V you need to increase capacitors on 85 or 100v but reduce the capacity so that they fit into the housing
Ninja1700
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: Ambitious battery mod in need of a battery helpdesk

Postby Ninja1700 Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:33 am

Well done, it's a clever way to get it to run faster.
How do you charge the extra 4s4p battery pack? And do you have BMS on your battery extra battery pack?

And you have put 4 pieces of 100 V capacitor on. Can you settle for eg. throw 1 pieces of 400 V capacitor, or 2 pieces 200V if I can get space for it?

Aquí está el texto en español. Es el googletlate que se utiliza:
Bien hecho, es una forma de conseguirlo y correr más rápido.
¿Cómo se carga la batería adicional 4s4p? ¿Y tienes BMS en tu batería extra?

Y tienes 4 piezas de capacitor de 100 V encendido. ¿Puedes conformarte con por ejemplo? ¿Lanzar 1 pieza de capacitor de 400 V o 2 piezas de 200 V si puedo obtener espacio para él?
Yes I agree 55 km / h I think that would give even more but esmax free software limits more than 55 Ikm I think that you can have other versions of the software on the external and internal battery and do not communicate with the controller eat the software esrolback tool to bms 1.22 firmware too to 1.22 then doing updates updraguje you external batteries do it only when soft is also lower in the external battery on the bank is old bms eg 1.3.6 or 1.22 is written by Google translator so not everything can be a super legible esrolback application check all modloly scooters and software version and other useful things you can find at https://mimod.ru/en_US/

Everything zelezy since mosfet what you have are on 64 85 I 100 v theoretically having the last you can give on the engine and 90 v conference needs someone who will tell me how to remove the speed limits from the software are discounted, but they are actually set at 45km / h above 50 km
https://imageshack.com/i/poUg45Ujj
https://imageshack.com/i/poqfxUdaj
https://imageshack.com/i/plcNPIw0j

I gave, of course, bigger capacitors 1000 nf 63v can be without them but thanks to the capacitors we have a voltage supply. Larger voltage gives a smaller A on the connectors from what I calculated instead of 25 A as in the original we have at power 1000W only 16A on the cables if you want to give more V you need to increase capacitors on 85 or 100v but reduce the capacity so that they fit into the housing
Dzidek2005
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 10:10 am

Re: Ambitious battery mod in need of a battery helpdesk

Postby Dzidek2005 Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:36 pm

.The additional 4s4p package loads the model loader, the voltages on the cells are identical. Increase the voltage I could reach and 65km / h, unfortunately the software is speed limit or fast fuse does not allow for more reaches 55 km / h I releases up to 50 km / h And so I use the software esmax free 9.4.0 over and over again in the paid version 9.4.1 this lock is removed. The capacitors are best to give 3 pcs with a large capacity and voltage matching the power supply. If you give a 6s4p packet best give capacitors on 85 v. You have to choose one that fit into the housing I have 3 pcs 1000uf 63V And the super voltage works so-far does not give much because something in the drive limits the speed normally 38 km 40 km and after applying 4s4p 50km - 55km, this is the fault of a quick fuse. At the moment I do not have time to fix it. Hence the question of whether someone has software that has a completely cut speed limit.
Increasing the package on 6s4p you have a limit of 55km / h 60km / h I need to have software with no speed limit then I can stretch out more possible also that the problem is the Russian throttle algorithm.
dryber
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:55 pm

Re: Ambitious battery mod in need of a battery helpdesk

Postby dryber Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:04 pm

What I would do is this
1. Make a 10s2p for the bottom and buy a BMS on internet
2. Make a male connector for this this battery in order to charge the main battery and charge the two battery separately.
With this solution only have more rage ore KM' s no more power, because you are using the bottom battery to charge the main battery and the maximum current will be the same
Bvzijverden
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 9:39 am

Re: Ambitious battery mod in need of a battery helpdesk

Postby Bvzijverden Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:18 pm

That is indeed something I'm leaning towards. Having both batteries in parallel would work, I got it on my ebike as well.
The only issue is that I acquired the external battery via an auction and thus dont know the cycles the thing already has. If the capacity is much lower than the internal battery than this wouldn't work as the packs will get out of balance real quick.

Return to “Ninebot ES and E-series”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests